Badgers gearbox Part Two...AAARRRRRGGGGG

[badgerKDD]

Ok spent a nice wet and cold sunday afternoon getting bits off the Gix so I could get the sump off and have a look.
Sitting in a pool of oil in the sump are two teeth and a pile of shavings! I'v looked into the gearbox as best I can but I can't see where the teeth are from or see any selector forks let alone bent ones The dogs look ok and the locating pins which run in the grooves ( don't know their correct title) seem ok too. Unfortunately seems I'm going to have to remove the engine and go deeper still then.
Two things then..
1) Is it possible to remove gearbox parts and assembilies while the engine is upside down on this model (94 W), as now the sump is off there is still a latice like frame between me and the gearbox internals, it looks like part of the casings too so don't thimk its removeable? Am I wrong?
2) As its teeth in the sump, bent selectors or not, it would seem I'v got a buggered gearing cog in there somewhere as well, am I going to spend a heck of a lot of money and time on something that is a bvit pointless and be better off looking for a replacement engine or is it worth perservering as thee current engine only has 28 000 on the clock? If replacement engine is the best option are there any other engines that might fit this model frame and electrics etc. as this model seems a bit thin on the ground engine wise?

All help appreciated cos its a lovely bike and I'm really gutted ..

[ZXR400Lee]

7/11 all the way mate!!! Find 1127!

[jam]

Oh bugger!!!!!!!!! The motor can be flipped over and split, you could look for another motor but I think you'd be better off getting this one rebuilt and then you know yourself that it is a good 'un, rather than taking a chance on a 2nd hand motor and finding it as bad as the one you have in a few thousand miles. If you need any help let me know. Can you post a pic of the gearbox taken through the sump, rotate the gearbox slowly until you find the missing teeth, also post a pic of the teeth as well, once you identify the gear pinion that the teeth came from you can then price the job up.

[TLS-Moose]

Thats a real p*sser - bad luck Badger

I'd agree with Jam - better to get your's sorted than take a risk on another old pile of poo-poo, though I too would also be sorely tempted to look for an 1100 motor if you do go down the whole engine swap route

[jam]

A good mod for the watercooled 750 is to drop an RF900 motor in, and swap the head over from your 750, it gives a good high compression 900 motor with good power and a bit revvier than the 1100 lump. Also RF900 motors are pretty cheap on eblag as they were a shitugly looking bike, so no fecker wants 'em. With the 750 head fitted you'll get a bike that is easily as fast as the 1100 but lighter and revs out a lot quicker.

[billinom8s]

DO WHAT JAM SAYS
DO WHAT JAM SAYS
DO WHAT JAM SAYS

[tony-klr]

you got a reply to your wanted ad

let me know if this is the right type of engine.

[badgerKDD]

Cheers for all help, going to hopefully drop the engine out of the frame tonight then I can get a better idea of whats going on. Going to have a scout out for an 1100 but I reckon theyre gonna be a bit hard to find or pricey seeing as how common a swap it is. Probably going to try and sort what I'v already got tho, seems simpler ,hopefully cost least and as Jam said could get a worse engine and have endless problems ever after.

Tony I'm off to wanted section nxt!

[badgerKDD]

Right following on from the Sales and wants section , the engine is out of the frame and on the bench. I'm halfway through removing componewnts to allow for a half engine split ( bottom), when I get the clutch out, probs tommorow if not thurs, I should be able to see the primary drive gears better and with luck on Friday I'm hoping to have it split so I can get into the gears proper. Jam, without a tape measure to hand and no camera at the mo its difficult but I'd say the two teeth are approx 10mm wide and quite stumpy poss 4-5mm tall? if I can borrow works camera tommorow I'll get a shot of them. Managed to spin the gears abit while its out and can't see any teeth missing from the first visible line of cogs, but I'll kinow more in nxt coup[le of days.

[Blimey]

Keep at it mate, fair play to you for having ago

[jam]

Before you start stripping it check the teeth on the clutch basket. Make sure that when you strip it you get all the smaller bolts out of the crankcases before you try to remove the main crankcase bolts surrounding the crank. There is also a set order in which to remove these bolts to reduce the chances of the crankcases warping, make sure you follow the numbers in reverse order, from 12 down to 1.

[badgerKDD]

)Thanks Jam, lukily those clever suzuki chaps embossed the order of removal no.s on the crankcase! Well its all in pieces in the workshop now, the gearbox is stripped and it revealed the two missing teeth were from the 4th gearcog and there is wear on the 3rd gear dogs. the selector forks appear to be straight though there is wear on the 3rd/ 4th gear selector but its on the lower section of the fork, a semi circular wear mark from where it was obviously trying to engage correctly. the connecting 3rd/4th gear cog appears fine, little bit of swarf on one tooth but I'v checked all the teeth with an eye glass and can't see any fine fracturing or excessive wear. Unfortunately due to the easter bank holiday I'm a bit stuck till tuesday before I can start to look for replacement parts, but hopefully I can get the bits within the early part of the week so maybe by the weekend ( don't have the kids nxt weekend) I can be putting the engine back together ( hope I remember how all the tubs of bolts go back together )! Fingers crossed !

[jam]

You need to check the engagement dogs on the gears where they slide into engagement with the gear pinion next to them, these are what wear and cause the bike to jump out of gear, it is usually a problem on the first and fifth gear pinions on the output shaft. If you are not sure about any of them then bring them upto me and I'll go over them for you. Much of the gearbox should be undercut as standard but often 2nd and 5th are not done to make the large jump from 1st into 2nd via neutral easier to engage. It's sods law that I got rid of an RF600 gearbox just before xmas, it got weighed in with a load of scrap as it had been sitting there for months. To replace just the pinions that are damaged will likely cost you around £160 plus gaskets from Suzuki. If you want I'll price them up for you as I can pass on the discount I get from Suzuki.

[jam]

The semi circular wear mark on the selector fork is not normal wear, the only wear on the selector fork in normal useage is to the small pads on each tang of the fork. The wear you describe is only caused by the gear it is trying to engage kicking back out because the engagement dogs are work, and it tries to ramp the gear out of engagement. You need to look very carefully at the engagement dogs on the gear it moves and also the neighbouring gear with which it engages, as the dogs do not need to round off very much before they start kicking back, and the problem will only get worse until it cannot be held in gear with any load applied to it. You may be able to get the damaged dogs undercut rather than replaced but the cost will likely be similar and possibly more to have the undercutting done and then rehardened.

[badgerKDD]

guessed that was the case with the selector fork, made sense when you see how its worn. The engagement dogs on the 3rd gear cog are definately worn, the corner is missing on each dog where they mesh with 4th gear. I'v tried to take some photo's but I won't be able to upload them till tuesday as its on the work camera. from what I can see though I'm going to need a replacement 3rd gear cog, 4th gear cog and the relevent selector fork. Everything else looks to be ok with no hairline fractures or abnormal wear patterns. I'm going to get my local Suzuki dealer( Anton Parris, Camborne, to check it over, hopefully Tues arvo if poss and get a price on parts and how quick they can get them. If they're not helpful then I'll be in touch Jam.