ADVANCE RIDING DEBATE - NOW HERE

[Cheese Monkey]

Of course we all can do that . I believe IAM will hone these skills.

[Stately]

I honestly cant see how that is a bad thing. Even if you go out every Sunday morning and go absolutely mental, at least you will have that training to know when its safer to go silly speeds and when its needed to take it easy, when the best places to overtake are etc.

If you really cannot judge for yourself when it's safe to press on, overtake, and when you need to take it easy, then you should not be on the road at all.

This is very basic stuff ffs

[Cheese Monkey]

Of course we all can do that . I believe IAM will hone these skills.

[Stately]

Of course we all can do that . I believe IAM will hone these skills.

Out of interest, have you joined the IAM ?

[AndyW]

Andy, do you want this post split up ?

Keep your add in here and split the discussion into another thread ?

Phil

Thanks Phil, that makes sense.

It's about putting the odds in your favour when you sling a leg over your bike. Everything else is immaterial. If you don't get on with the IAM I'm certainly not going to have a go at you for that, but why attempt to sway others away from a bit of training that is indisputably useful. Most of it is common sense I'll admit freely, but the fact that training acts as a reinforcement doesn't harm.
My personal experience of IAM members has been fairly neutral, the training didn't make me a quicker rider, and nor was that a reason for doing it, it didn't make me any more aware of my bikes capabilities or my own, what it did was give me considerably more focus on what I'm doing when I am riding. For that I am grateful.

Nicely put!

give me a copper in a car any day much more reasonable individuals...for some reason the police biker role really seems to attract completely the wrong type of person. I cant remember the last time I got pulled by a policeman on a bike where I didnt end up having a difference of opinion with them.... unprofessional, s hit riders, huge chips on their shoulders, with deep set issues.....probably troubled by the fact that my nan who has mild alzheimers could give them a run for their money on their s hit bikes in her nissan micra.

WTF?!
"I cant remember the last time I got pulled by a policeman on a bike where I didnt end up having a difference of opinion with them" .........you make it sound like it happens a lot, maybe there is something you could learn from that?.....and strange as there seem to be less and less police out there, on bikes or otherwise.......and of course nothing to do with your attitude at the time, the fact that you might have been in the wrong or resent being caught?

[SlowR1der]

A few years back if I remember correctly Ride or Bike magazine did an article on training versus instinct and put a despatch rider against a class 1 police rider over the same short road circuit. The results were interested. It a shame I can't find the article but it must on online somewhere

Of course the Police rider would have been the better rider.

police motorcyclists are legends in their own minds.

give me a copper in a car any day much more reasonable individuals...for some reason the police biker role really seems to attract completely the wrong type of person. I cant remember the last time I got pulled by a policeman on a bike where I didnt end up having a difference of opinion with them.... unprofessional, s hit riders, huge chips on their shoulders, with deep set issues.....probably troubled by the fact that my nan who has mild alzheimers could give them a run for their money on their s hit bikes in her nissan micra.

OI..... we aint all bad mate and i reckon i would pip ur nan at the line but only if i was on me 750.

[jason]

OI..... we aint all bad mate

yeh I know....always get a bit carried away when it comes to police motorcyclist rants one to many irritating experiences with them

[greg]

OI..... we aint all bad mate

yeh I know....always get a bit carried away when it comes to police motorcyclist rants one to many irritating experiences with them

You must be unlucky Jason, or I am lucky, not sure which!

I've never been pulled by a bike copper, and only once by a jam sarnie - hands up 92.5 on a dual carriageway, no other traffic visible, him hiding, just tough, 3 points and a comment as he gave me the ticket "nice to see you on a British bike" - would it have been 6 points points on a Jap bike .

Been pulled countless times abroad, usually at roadside blocks, name, rank, service number type stuff, never been fined, or got lectured.

[Cheese Monkey]

Of course we all can do that . I believe IAM will hone these skills.

Out of interest, have you joined the IAM ?

inquiring.

[deej]

police motorcyclists are legends in their own minds.

give me a copper in a car any day much more reasonable individuals...for some reason the police biker role really seems to attract completely the wrong type of person. I cant remember the last time I got pulled by a policeman on a bike where I didnt end up having a difference of opinion with them.... unprofessional, s hit riders, huge chips on their shoulders, with deep set issues.....probably troubled by the fact that my nan who has mild alzheimers could give them a run for their money on their s hit bikes in her nissan micra.

OI..... we aint all bad mate and i reckon i would pip ur nan at the line but only if i was on me 750.

thats debatable theres some good and bad as in every job or even walk of life

[billinom8s]

have to say, i used to know a group of IAM members, members being the word. they used to ride around everywhere like they all had sticks up their arse. nice tidy procession, spot on road positioning, signals and speed. then when they stopped they would all assess each others riding.

don't actually remember anyone of them ever laughing or talking with enthusiasm the way 'normal' riders do when referring to previous rideout, almost as if it was a duty/chore.

put me off IAM for life.

[jim1979]

I saw a load of them at Exeter services one morning before an early ride. They didn't even like the massive wheelie I pulled through the car park on entering Personally not for me.

[Stately]

You don't have to be clad in dayglo and ride like a robot to be safe on the road.

It's all about knowing where it's OK to press on, and where not too.

Other than that, it's about positioning, and being observant, not taking risks and paying attention to road signs, especially warning signs.

You know that an offside positioning bias for a left hand bend, is the optimum for the best view, as is a nearside bias for right hand bends.

Then it's slow in, looking up and as far forward as you can, and accellerating out, gently feeding in the power as the bend opens up and your view through it becomes clearer.

The important thing here is looking ahead, and not down, or at the hedges either side of you.

One of the most common accident scenarios is, rider loses control in a left hand bend as a result of panic, brings the bike up, brakes, and goes straight on.

If the rider is very unlucky, he/she ends up in the path of oncoming traffic from the opposite direction.

It's called target fixation, which means quite simply, the body wants to follow the eyes.

If you're mid corner, and you focus on the hedge directly beside you, that's where the brain instictively wants to take you and that is what causes the body's natural safety reflex to kick in and shout stop, this is dangerous.

It can happen in the mildest of bends and very often speed is not a factor.

I was reading a feature in a mag a while back about Keith Cody's race school.
He spends a lot of time training riders to overcome these natural reflexes - it's basically training the brain to get to grips with doing something that is quite un-natural.

In other words, in these situations, all that is required is to lean the bike a bit further, but sadly, our brains very often can't get to grips with this and go into self preservation mode (stop), which ironically, is the more dangerous option.

Look up, and deep into the bend, and your brain will instruct the rest of you to follow.

Advanced riding, is basically ironing out the bends and keeping the path through them as straight as possible, thus making more efficient progress.

Of course you can't literally straighten a bend, but by plotting your course through them by correct positioning, you can take the course of least resistance, (for want of a better expression), and when you do that, you start flowing and soon find yourself making quicker progress than you ever thought possible without even trying.

The other mistake a lot of riders make, is being in too higher gear through twisty roads.

What this does, is handicap your engine braking, meaning you end up having to use the brakes on entering a corner, which you shouldn't have to do if you've read the road properly.

If you think you are guilty of this, it maybe worth, next time your on your favourite bit of road, to be a gear lower than you would be normally - you won't blow up your engine.

What you'll find is that when you enter a series of bends in the correct gear, you won't need to use the brakes, as the engine braking as you ease off the throttle will slow you down enough when you need to scrub off speed on the straight before the bend.

The most important thing to bear in mind is that it is not a race.

The quickest riders are not necessarily the better one's.

Racers can ride to the extreme and push their bikes to the limits of performance because they are in a relatively safe environment, where they have plenty of run off, there are no junctions and everything is travelling in the same direction.

Also, they are out there with fellow pro's who are totally focussed on what is going on around them.

When I go out, I certainly do not wish to put my life in the hands of other road users who are more likely to be concentrating of the nice view, the kids, or their mobile phones.

Avoid subscribing to this, must go faster, attitude to riding that is being forced upon us by the biking press.

Precision, control, a flowing style and above all safety, are the hallmarks of a good road rider.

[AndyW]

Spot on but all the same it's surprising how many riders who, for any number of reasons, really don't appreciate some of the things you mention and therefore stand to gain a lot from doing IAM....i.e. gain a lot of experience/knowledge in just a few weeks.

[Beejyman]

I will be doing the IAM skills for life package as soon as I can afford it, having read the literature it seems that if it stops me being dead in a ditch it will be worth it. At the moment saving for a ride to dubrovnik and back in the summer so can't afford the expense. (probably would be better to do the skills for life first but when these opprotunities came along you can't turn them down). Unfortunately i'm 27 so can't enter the draw for a free package.