South West Bikers | Motorcycle Forum

Ok.... I give up...

Silverstone is a great place to learn braking to the apex.

The "new circuit" after the new pits lead's into a 90 degree right which you can brake right to the apex with your knee down. It's a weird sensation but where you can make alot of time as sets you nicely for the switchback left afterwards. Pembrey first corner and old hairpin both are also corners to learn tipping in on the brakes.

It's just confidence, out on the road I will trail the rear to drag the front in, where on track I will scrub the front into the corner with a smooth transition to throttle to get the drive.

One more time....

This is about when you feel the need brake mid corner, not tipping it in under braking.
This situation is not about track riding. It's about mid corner panic.

billinom8s wrote: ↑Oct 21st, '18, 10:49 Pushing against the direction the bar wants to go will stop it lifting the bike upright, it will still want and try to right itself, nothing can be done about that.

You just have to judge your down force against the bikes' lift to keep it where you want it.

Yup, that's what I was thinking.
If you are prepared for it happen then maybe you can train yourself to expect it and thus be ready to counter it.

I think your 1190 is a later model so should have cornering ABS - just grab more front brake and keep leaning!

Why would you need to brake mid corner. If you've taken in the available information, got correct position, gear and speed and know your exit there's no reason to brake.

He's on about what all of us mere mortals have been guilty of at some time or another. That is, not being perfect and having misjudged things, feeling you have too much speed when in a corner on the road. Can you make the bike still go along the desired path if you do have the perfectly understandable reaction to an uncomfortable situation and apply a bit of front brake?

My answer, as an average incompetent rider, is yes; but because you have a normal bike with normal suspension and you are cornering and braking at the same time any extra steering input will be harder to apply than the initial steering input. However, Newtonian mechanics will apply and IF you are very near the limit of tyre adhesion with the existing cornering and braking, adding more steering forces could well end in grief. Bitter experience has proven that to be the case

Hi Ming - yup, she's got the C-ABS and that is exactly what I do on her, my 990 doesn't have this though.

The only bike that has ever done this to me was my Vstrom. It was a while back now, but the reason it happened was that I mistook which corner I was on (I was new to the area). The corner was sharper than expected and had a junction close to the exit, I mistakenly thought that was the one after this.
I braked hard when I realised and the bike stood up straight, I allowed it to do that whilst I continued braking for a little longer as wanted to get rid of more speed, and no vehicles were oncoming so it seemed safe to do so, then I eased off the brakes and banked back in. I made the corner with no issues other than scaring myself a little.

jer r1 - there could be many reasons why you'd need to brake (or increase braking) mid corner. You could have made a error in your judgment, there could be an obstacle in the road that was not visible when you made your assessment of the corner, it could be a corner you've never ridden before so tightened unexpectedly, that is just to name but a few.
You might say that you should never drive/ride faster than you can brake to stop in the distance you can see, and you'd be right, but I know I don't ride like that unless I am in very tight blind corners.

Do the Bike Safe course and add reading the road to the bank of riding knowledge. Looking at Hedge lines etc will Help on corner appreciation.

My SD doesn't have ABS but then neither does the ten.

I'm fairly sure there's no magic setting or technique that can be applied other than

Observation
Slow in
Fast out
Smooth

If they can build a Bike that will allow you to corner at chosen speeds alongside sticky rubber that'll Work on shitty UK roads and not risk you becoming part of the scenery then we'll all have one.

Enjoy the SD for all it's unpredictable fun and just keep a good supply of undergarments handy for when you fill them.

This guy talks sense most.of.the time

https://youtu.be/u551BqQkGLk

Sorry, have I suddenly happened across the DAM page? the responses I'm seeing here don't seem to relate to some of the rideouts I've been on. I seem to have encountered the twilight world of perfect riders ......

I'm pretty certain Mr Jug isn't talking about everyday riding and cornering, nor is he talking about track riding ...... he's talking about those once in a while "oops, I've fecked that up!" moments, or the half-way around a corner "Eek, where did that cow-pat/pothole/rock/gravel on my riding line come from" moments.

Now as has been said above, proper planning, reading the road ahead, riding within the distance you can stop in, etc, etc, is how we should and no doubt do, normally ride but no matter how good a rider we think we might be, I can guarantee we've all had the above moments, where the natural reaction is to skim the brakes, and thanks to dear old gyroscopic effect the bike tends to sit up a little punting you towards the hedge or oncoming traffic depending on the direction of the bend. When this happens and you're brain catches up with the trajectory of the bike your natural reaction at aiming for a solid object at a speed quicker than you'd like is to squeeze the brake that little bit harder (actually ones forearm is usually doing a good popeye impression). What Mr Jug is getting at, is when you are in this phase of reaction can you force the bike into the curve against its (and gravities) will or do you have to just suck it up and be a passenger along for the ride?

I've certainly found myself in a situation where encountering a thick layer of gravel from the centre of my lane out to the white line on a lefthand bend, I've ended up going between the passenger side of an oncoming car and the hedge. There was no way that application of the brake or forcing the bike harder into the bend would have helped in that instance - it would have just meant lowsiding into the side of the car. However, I do think it's something that can be learnt and even perhaps practised (if you have somewhere quiet and safe to practice). Just approach the chosen corner and try braking and leaning at the same time a few times to get a feel for how the bike responds, then try squeezing a little harder on the lever and seeing if it will still do (or can be made to do) what you want. One of the most important things, and I've also found the hardest, is teaching your brain not to automatically reach for the brake when you encounter something you hadn't anticipated.

Advanced riding, Bike Safe, (maybe even track riding), etc., etc., might all help prevent the discussed scenarios occurring, but I challenge every single person on this site to put their hand on their heart and say they haven't had a moment on a bend that hasn't got their heart beating a little faster or given cause for discussion at the next coffee stop .......

Yep following you into liverton on a rideout. I ended up having to take a junction exit rather than follow you round a corner that I had no chance of making.

Ah, I see, blame me for that even

Thanks ptolemyx & TLS-Moose, I was starting to think that my posts where being displayed in invisible text.

... and that my riding is so subpar that I really should consider turning in my license and buying bus pass for my own safety...

but TBH - Learning to read the road a little better couldn't hurt.

Have to say talking about it and reality are two differant things. I have also been in this situation many times and the results have not been great.

When grabbing brakes I have never managed to do anything more then stand up the bike and end up on the other side of the road. I am sure some might be able to man handle the bike to get it to lean back down again but not me. My head just tells me too much weight on the front and too much lean if I do anything else I will crash

From track riding I know if I look round the corner and try and focus on where I want to go, keep the bike balanced the best choice is don’t touch the brakes and try and make the corner then the tyres have got a better chance of gripping. However this normally requires a lean angle greater then my abilities or skill.

So what do I do

Grab the brakes. Sh*t myself, hope nothing is coming, get back on the right side of the road as soon as possible, shake my head, tell myself off, do the rest of the ride at 5mph